have incentivized employers to do better living conditions like at Ford Motors and our economy would have progressed so much the standard of living would be significantly higher...
@VulcanMan610mos10MO
The free market would mulch you into biofuel if it was profitable. Economic progress comes only from labor action, not from the good will of businesses.
@TruthHurts10110mos10MO
It's not the "good will" of businesses that makes the world go round, nor have I ever claimed that. It's competition between them that does. Capitalism uses mankind's less-than-noble nature for good, socialism assumes that it's noble. Of course you'll claim I'm straw-manning here but I am just attacking socialism as most socialists describe it, not as you do.
@VulcanMan6 10mos10MO
"It's competition between them that does."
Competition only stifles progress. Even logically, your claim doesn't make sense.
Every independent establishment/institution hiding information and resources from each other only results in LESS overall progress. Think of how much MORE progress we would have if all of our collective human knowledge and resources were put together and shared amongst all of society? The amount of medical and technological knowledge alone would be significantly higher than it is today if every scientist and producer had access to all known information and resources available. It doesn't even make sense to think that private individuals with limited and exclusive information/resources would somehow have more progress than collective sources with allRead more
"Capitalism uses mankind's less-than-noble nature for good..."
"Good" for private capital-owning individuals, yes, but not better for everyone else.
"...socialism assumes that it's noble."
No it doesn't. There is no ideological tenet or source that even suggests that, it is entirely your own misunderstanding of the idea that makes you keep assuming that.
"Of course you'll claim I'm straw-manning here but I am just attacking socialism as most socialists describe it, not as you do."
The fact that you're talking to ME is what makes it a strawman, yes. If you were talking to someone who actually claimed this (which I doubt anyone ever actually has, you just misunderstand the ideology), then it wouldn't be a strawman, you would be addressing their position, but since I didn't claim this, and in fact have repeatedly claimed against it, is what makes this a fallacy.
I promise you, as a socialist who is very well-versed in socio-economic ideology and incredibly active in online communities, that this is NOT a real position believed by anyone who knows what socialism is. The only time I have ever even heard it is by anti-socialists using this as a strawman to give pro-capitalist propaganda. No socialist I have ever heard of has ever actually made this claim. And the fact that it's simply your anecdotal word against mine is exactly why the strawman fallacy is a fallacy...either argue with what I said, or there's no point in bringing it up.
